In light of the recent discussions about premium themes and the WordPress community, and also in conjunction to a very special interview with Matt Mullenweg, I wanted to ask you all something.
What if I brought back the Revolution One themes for purchase?
Now, before you answer, just read through this post so that it all makes sense. I understand back when I made my announcement that a lot of people who purchased the All Inclusive package were upset because they felt as though they didn’t get their money’s worth since I was shutting down the site. I extended out to the the Pro Plus package on the new site at no charge, as a way of saying thanks.
Here’s what I am possibly considering…
Since I am in the development of launching a new theme site, I thought I would bring the original Revolution themes back for sale on there as well. These themes would be updated for WordPress 2.7 and made available to the people who are still looking for them. I really do think that would be a win-win for the WordPress community, because it brings back a number of high quality themes into the community, as well as provide up to date versions for those who’ve purchased it already.
With the amount of themes that I have been developing, this would ultimately be a place where themes can be purchased under the GPL license and then all support for themes developed by me would ultimately be in the same location. I would also be able to refer out more theme customization requests to those of you who have independent design companies, and this would help build out the “eco-system” of the WordPress community.
By bringing them back…
It would allow me to provide more forum moderators, quicker support and ultimately a better selection of themes that you can choose from. For anyone who purchased an All Inclusive or Pro Plus package, you would receive access to and support for all of my themes at no additional charge.
I really want to respond to the enormous amount of feedback I’ve received over the past few months about shutting down the original themes. If I did so, of course I would do my best to make this a fair transition, and that I would continue to develop new themes as well as innovate and enhance the ones that are currently available.
So, I just want you to be honest, and tell me what you all think…
Yes, yes, yes…………. please?
Great idea. I’ve had so many people say to me that they miss the Rev1 stuff.
Fab work, as always, Brian
Have a lovely Christmas and a prosperous New Year
Best wishes
Paula
confused – would the current Revolution 2 themes still be open source?
but the Revolution 1 themes for direct sale?
or all Rev 1 And Rev 2 under the same open source w/ cost for support?
I think it is a fantastic win-win for any Revolution theme owner. Everything in one place would provide an even stronger community of support with all of the great themes that started it ALL and the new ones in R2 and the ones still to come.
I give 2 thumbs up!
It´s a great idea.
The new themes are very modern and functional but there is a group of people who are really fan of your original Rev Themes.
BTW, Feliz Navidad!
You know I’m ALL FOR THIS.
Just some random thoughts
1. People who previously purchased the themes, especially recently, would be expecting you to update them to 2.7 anyway
2. You added even more scarcity to the themes by removing them from the market – to add them back on the market just over a month later, with more flexible terms, isn’t good marketing.
3. I think a large number of people might have a legitimate reason to ask for a refund
a) Anyone who puchased multi-site licenses to use on multiple sites – if GPL, really hard to justify paying for more than single license
b) Anyone who purchased a multi-site license because they wanted to remove the footer links.
As it is, just because a current theme is under GPL, doesn’t necessarily mean you should make it easy for people to download the themes for free, no matter what the support level.
You really need to work on your sales processes, the benefits of paying for R2 are much less obvious.
It seems like a great idea to me. The Revolution 1 themes had a lot to offer so it seems like a shame that they would be kept unavailable to the WordPress community.
Sure you might upset a few people that purchased them in the past, but things change and evolve. It’s just like when you go and buy a computer and 6 months later you could get that same computer for a fraction of the cost.
Releasing them under the GPL is a great idea for the Revolution and WordPress user communities.
Brian,
As someone who bought the all inclusive package I have to say I have never felt “shorted” in any way. You have always provide updates and great support. Having said that I think it would be really nice if the old templates were brought up to date. Just keep developing dude.
Joe
I think it would be great to bring them back. as rev 1 & rev 2 both have a lot to offer.
Keeping up with you is a full time job, Brian. My caution would be to make sure that support doesn’t drop as the number of themes offered increases. Your model is based upon high-caring support levels AND incredibly well designed themes. I know that you will be picking up more help as you proceed. I hope to join those ranks someday. Continue to build the team and proceed with an eye on support levels. That’s my two bits.
Even though I am one of those “all inclusive” guys and paid the money accordingly I have never thought or felt that you have done me short by the business decisions you made.
I kind of have to agree with Carl Hancock about the no more than natural depreciation of the value of anything over time, on the other hand, the R1 themes work just fine still and Andy’s got some strong points there..
In the end everyone benefits from having both R1 & R2 in one and the same place with the forum attached to the deal. I think ultimately it comes down to how you can find the best solution for the customers combined with you still sleeping at night … and I’m pretty certain you’ll find a way in making a sound decision..
Curious as always where this leads to
Either way: Have a great Xmas!
Brian,
What ever helps you, I am using the 1st Version stuff and hoped you would make this decision, but don’t over extend yourself.
If there is one thing I have learned in this business, It is better to do a few small things great rather then do “A LOT” of things Mediocre…
I’ll support what ever you you do, as the support to us, and the quality has always been top notch!
But If I were to be asked for me @ corpsman.com, I would like the first versions brought back, but that is for Me, not the guy who is creating and supporting it all.
Have a HAPPY Christmas Brian!!
Darrell
Zion, IL where the Temp is -30 Windchill on this Balmy Day..
” I extended out to the the Pro Plus package on the new site at no charge, as a way of saying thanks.” -
I don’t understand that comment. Did you mean at a discount? Please clarify.
MB
Brian – I would like to see the Rev1 themes back – especially if it means 2.7 compatible versions!
Aside from my previous question… I find value in continuing to work with R1. I actually have a bit of affection for them. Leaving the forums open on them and allowing the R1 community to thrive separately from R2 is a really good idea. I had mixed feelings of excitement and disappointment with the new intro of R2. Excitement of R2 and disappointed with the direction of R1.
Eh, either way, I’ll continue to support your community.
Merry Christmas and congrats on a fantastic 2008.
MB
Hi Brian,
This is interesting! I am an all-inclusive member and have no problem with you bringing R1 back.
After skimming through the comments, though, I’m a bit confused how it will work. Will they be run separately on different domains or will they be combined somewhere? I’m back to re-read the original post, but that was the main thing that confused me.
So that it helps with your decision, I am on the guys that is on the fence when it comes to paying for the support. I am currently paying in other capacities to other providers. Frankly, the parts of my decision are the number of themes the provider delivers, terms of the agreement, and the quality of the themes. Your themes are all excellent and I know that if the R1 themes were brought back to purchase, it would greatly influence my decision… to where I would pay.
I’m all for it, I think the revolution One theme is a brilliant design and the best of the bunch.
Sure, I’d love to see the R1 themes updated and available. Does that mean that if I purchased the all inclusive package for R2 that I’d get R1 as well. Even if the answer is no the R2 package was worth it.
Keep up the good work.
Brian,
All in all this seems to me to be a very good thing to do. I am a bit confused by it: I recently bought the lifetime membership for R2, so I can not figure from your posting and the comments whether this is going to provide R1 for me as well. But, I am sure you will clarify that as you think this through.
I must say that this whole “theme business” is a bit confusing to me at present, with the question of what constitutes a derivative work and so forth. I’d like to see Matt come out with something really definitive, not only for developers but for us end-users as well. I currently own both R2 and Thesis, and I like both platforms, but it is hard for me to know whether I might be forced to use only one of these (the R2, since it is GPL). Ultimately I guess I wouldn’t loose any sleep over it, but would like for the dust to go ahead and settle.
Brian,
Are you saying that all themes would be in one place. Some themes would be sold (Rev 1) while other themes would be freely downloadable (Rev 2) but that all themes would fall under the GPL?
Please consider being the first to create a child theme market. Your users could create child theme versions of Rev 1 or Rev 2 (which at their most basic are nothing more than CSS & images). You could offer those child themes for a nominal fee and split the revenue with the child theme author. Imagine Revolution Lifestyle with a dozen different skins. I may be all wrong on this but I think its a win / win for you and your clients. Someone will eventually do it, why not you?
Hmm, reading this post makes me think of two things. Either the business model for Rev2 is not working or, people are chomping at the bit to give you money for Rev1 themes from yesteryear. Considering you’ve had so much feedback regarding the rev1 themes, I can understand how you might feel that not having those available means you are losing cash. To be honest, I read through the comments and the post and I’ll probably have to do it again but I’m confused.
The question I have is this, will people be able to purchase these themes with no strings attached?
I’m looking forward to having access to those themes again. I have 3 site rebuilds to do and wanted to use themes that are no longer available. You do great work.
I think that a year or so after you buy a theme you can expect that as design and trends change and your look becomes more dated that you can expect to see it sold for less or given away. When I first bought the Blackberry Pearl (the week it came out) I paid $450 for it. You can buy them now for $50.
I haven’t really looked at the your package details but I’m assuming people paid for support etc. along with the actual themes? Either way paid, GPL or other… I’m in!
Cheers,
Shane Gibson
Brian, I have come to trust that every move you make is in our best long-term interests. Also, having listened to Jeff interview Matt, it is much clearer to me that truly following the spirit of the GPL is absolutely the right direction, not only for WordPress but also for the entire eco-system of products and services in orbit around it.
As one of the Rev1 all-inclusive customers, I have no problem whatsoever with this move. Sure, it will increase reduce the exclusivity of the Rev1 themes but the beauty of Revolution themes is that they are easy to customize and, with Pro Plus membership, we have access to all the support we need to learn how to make our sites truly unique.
What we’ve really bought into is the community you’re building and, if this move strengthens that, go for it!
Great idea, This would be great for your branding and bring credibility to Rev1s again.
With plugins from the Rev2s the sites wont look dated as Shane mentioned. Being able to offer updates and and a new look is up to the designer and not so much the developer (you), and the plugins are a real plus.
Brian,
I hope you didn’t think I was slamming the idea nor support, I believe both are top notch.
What I was trying to get across was your already spending numerous hours etc in the Starbucks, up late at night answering emails etc..
When you part out some of your business, I.e Coding and Customer Service, With what you have built her, the personal effect you have created can sometimes be lost.
That was all I was trying to say.
I support what “EVER” you do as there has never been any reason not to. I have always, received #1 Support from you.
Just didn’t want you to think i was slamming on your plan, I am not, Customer Service was my thing for 24 years in my old Job..
Good Luck!!
D/C
If you bring back Revolution 1 themes again for purchase please update them up to a ‘premium’ level. They may have been ‘premium’ material 1 year ago, but in terms of coding quality, usability and features they have fallen way below par now. There are many other commercial themes and even free themes that are much better than your themes now. You will have to lift your game.
I think it was a mistake trying to reinvent the support model for these themes. Keep support free, make people pay for the themes.
Paying for support, when that support is no better than when it was free, tends to give a sour taste to the whole effort. Paying for a theme, however, that is way better than a free theme, seems to be the sweet spot in the Wordpress realm.
Pay for the themes, keep the support free, is the way to go.
And please make the theme updates backwards compatible. Having to rebuild from scratch seems to be a pretty cumbersome way to deal with updates.
BG, you know I’ve always supported you … and I feel strongly that your business is YOUR business. Your first and primary responsibility is to your family. And although you’ve been successful in everything you’ve done (including Rev2), it’s your gig, bro! I hope you go through with this though … you’ve got my support (as if you need it)!
As rev2 only customer (missed the cut off date for rev1), I would love the idea of opening up the rev1 themes. I think that all rev2 only people should pay a support fee for them though. This us what you did for rev2, and I can only imagine that the community responded well.
I come from the joomla world and no-one us doing the same model you are with rev2 currently. Adding back the rev1 themes and following the same model sounds like a very solid business plan. I can tell you as one of the people that would to pay, HIT MYCC TODAY!
Keep up the awwsome work, and I really look forward to all the new themes, and being a assest in the forums.
God Bless.
Brian, as an all-inclusive Rev 1 customer, I don’t think what you are proposing is unacceptable at all. As someone has already stated, the lifespan of a style of theme is limited anyway and I feel that for the sites I build, I’ve sort of moved past the Rev 1 themes. Not to say they won’t possibly have a place in future projects, but there are reasons to move on to other looks as well.
One think I am thankful for is that you are a straight shooter. I don’t feel I ever have to question your business ethics or whether you will treat your customers fairly; you have and you do.
I am also thankful that in your theme designs, you let the end user retain the ability to tweak a theme to their heart’s content because you have not built an overly complex backend that makes theme customization difficult or next to impossible. With increased complexity in the backend comes the increased likelihood that plugins won’t work or new features in WordPress, like threaded comments, won’t be able to be supported in the theme. Thanks for, what to me is, a perfect blend of thoughtful theme options without going crazy about it.
Keep ‘em coming Brian.
Go for it. I paid for them mainly because of the support and the quality not because of the exclusivity of a paid theme. I’d like to see them updated and still be supported. Plus, I am certain that you can make them even better over time. If someone really likes using your R1 theme, it seems that they would like to see it updated for new features like threaded comments.
Brian, Great idea! The original Revolution themes are still relevant, feature packed and obviously a lot of people would still like to see them made available. As far as upgrading them all to “premium” status now, I don’t agree that’s a necessity.. as others have mentioned, with any technology related product or service, they’re going to have a limited lifespan. I would rather see you devote the majority of your time to developing the new series with the latest technologies, features, etc.
I applaud your move to honor the spirit of the GPL and go to the support model, that really speaks to your character. Still, I do think that there is definitely a market for the paid premium or “proprietary” themes. It all comes down to getting what you pay for. If you want the extra quality and attention to detail you should be willing to part with a few dollars to get it.
Thanks for letting us weigh in on the subject.
Brian – the quality of your themes has consistently been the best in the market. And the support system is absolutely first-rate.
Having the dev package for Rev1, I, for one, would be delighted for you to bring ‘em back. As good as the Rev2 themes are, there are still instances where Rev1 is a better choice.
I think it’s a solid business move – for both sides. Definitely win-win.
Oh yes, I say bring them back, definitely. Yes, yes, yes! I would love to continue using them on my sites indefinitely – especially Pro Media and Magazine. Awesome!
I bought the life time support. If I understand what you are saying (and probably I am not) if you made the Rev1 themes available to us, then that would be fantastic. I love have the choices that we have now under Rev2 but would be picking of 1 or two of the Rev1 themes as well.
If you are saying the end of the Rev2 model or a big slow down on the release of new themes to that scheme, that would be bad for me but I totally understand that your are blazing new trails and as such, changes in direstion can happen.
Best of luck with your working through this. Have a great holiday period. And a wonderful 2009!
Molly
PS. Any update on streamline/wireframe theme?
You know, I’m a great fan of your Rev 1 themes. But as much I like the Rev 1 themes to be back, from the business integrity standpoint, I’m not sure if there’s such a good idea.
Why? Have you seen some websites telling people that a certain product will only be available till, say Oct 08; and come Dec 08, they bring it back on? What if you were one of them who made the buying decision because you really thought that after Oct 08, that product will not be available any more? Would you have felt cheated?
I’m a Christian, and I’m very proud of you confessing unabashedly that you’re one too. Would such decision affect the image of God? Please consider carefully about your decision using Kingdom principles.
Having said that, If you really insists on your decision, please handle it carefully so that you – especially a Christian, would be found blameless.
Just my two cents worth.
God bless,
Melvin Neo
Brian, let me add my voice to the “let’s see the updated themes in circulation, and no, I haven’t felt short-changed’. I have the themes and I have access to the Rev2 forums, so I’m happy. You’ve called them “Revolution” cos we’re in the middle of a bit of a revolution. That’s always more like surfing a wave than being in total control. Go with it!
‘Morning Brian –
And Happy Holidays!
I totally agree with Mevlin on this! This was my first reaction to reading your email. In fact, I purchased another R1 theme minutes before the bewitching closing hour, just because I believed they would no longer be available. I didn’t need the theme (nor do I currently) but was anticipating my needs for the future.
I appreciate your situation and respect both your need to do what you believe is best for you, as well as for checking in with the Revolution community. All that said, I have not felt short-changed and feel I have gotten far, far more in the way of considerable support in the Revolution community for my site. The value you provide is unbelievable. I would just keep the lines clean and clear. Again, as Melvin indicated, I would tread carefully.
Take very good care, and I wish everyone a special prayer for peace and love, in your lives, and in the world. Happy Holidays….
Hi Brian,
Wow – lot’s of stuff going on. Thank you for being so open with your business choices with us and open to feedback. Here are my thoughts;
First – I would rather have the new Streamline theme before the old Rev 1’s were updated.
Second – I think paying for a theme and free support is a better business model and easier to sell.
Third – Being the first with parent-child themes / support and marketplace would be a very ‘revolutionary’ business model.
Bottom line, we are your fans because of your dedication and customer service. Whichever business model you eventually stay with, as long as the service stays, you will always be successful!
Thanks, Tina
Good Morning Brian…mind if I “key” in?? (hmm a day late and a dollar short but hey I have good excuse I been busy baking Christmas Cookies, up to 49 dozen!!).. I think bringing back the original themes would be an excellent idea, they are a “classic” you know!! Personally just putting them “away’ was an injustice, so many others, in my opinion are missing out on some great “originals. I keep pausing and re-reading some of the comments because I am a bit confused from a few of the comments about why you should “rethink” this… With the opening of a new theme site and bringing back what I consider the “classics” is a great idea, I for one would love it because it opens doors for my template I purchased (theme) to be updated without worrying about rebuilding my blog that put so much time and effort into. I agree this would be a win-win, this would benefit ALL Revolution Users…..
Merry Christmas!!
Brian,
I emailed you my feedback at two addresses I have for you.
Just the highlights here:
1. slow down – this might be the correct path & asking people is a good thing, however part of why you are revisiting this is you did not work through all the issues in the past.
2. you should read at least one of these before you make this potential move:
- The E-Myth:Revisited – http://www.e-myth.com – by Michel Gerber
- Good To Great – http://www.jimcollins.com – by Jim Collins – especially look at the Hedgehog Concept
3. what are your dreams? – what are you going for overall in life, then for this business?
Your mission, vision, and goals should determine the path you go … what fits the character and values that you and the organization have and hold?
It is good to want to support a vision or mission that is greater then you. However you can only help or support someone/something out of strength.
An $6per hour employee helps/supports/gives out of what s/he has a strength in – time.
A person who donates $1 million has to have a strength of at least $1 million to donate it to a cause/org/whatever.
The book Think & Grow Rich (another great book you might consider reading) describes the process of achieving goals basically like this:
1. – have a clear vision of what you want
2. – decide what you are willing to give to receive what you desire
3. – …
That’s the bottom line, focus on where you are going and what you are going to give/do to get there. A third is “make sure you understand what all is involved” …. so you don’t have a real need to post a post like this again.
Hello Brian,
As an all-inclusive buyer, I support the return of the original Revolution themes.
I also really appreciate your cultivation of the WordPress community and the growing ecosystem for designers/developers that you’ve certainly helped create.
Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Hi Brian
I believe I bought the Revolution 1 lifetime package – I am not sure I fully understand the issue, but I appreciate all of your efforts and the forum has been very helpful – so I support your decision as I assume it will only benefit us in the long run!
p.s. – I anxiously await the Streamline theme for a large project I am working on. Hopefully it is “coming soon”.
Happy Holidays!
YES Please.
I had been meaning to purchase a few of these themes in the fall but was waiting for some things to fall in place. I was shocked and disappointed when they went off the market.
Joel Mark Witt
I would support bringing the Revolution 1 themes back. Over time I think they will be less and less important to you and everyone who likes your work, but I don’t see any reason not to bring them back.
Happy Holidays to everyone in the Revolution community!
Jim S.
May I suggest some clarity on what is being proposed here.
How about a bullet point list of what would change and how you view those changes as fair play for those who paid you money — the all-inclusives, those who bought the premiums at the last minute, and the new guys who paid for service only.
Please be specific on how the value translates, assuming it does.
I also suggest being clear about the implications of the GPL.
Thanks for the transparity.
Hi Brian,
Greetings from the new snowy Alps and headquarters of Starbucks, otherwise known as Seattle: what a snow storm!
The nutty thing in following your themes for over a year is that I’m always…..”hmm, that one looks like it would be good for this idea and that one would work in this environment”….but with all the improvements I can never make a darn decision! I keep seeing better and better. And I never buy! Never, because I always see cooler things. At some point I have to just get going.
I will. Promise.
Hi Brian -
I was one of the very first adopters of the original developers license – and some of the sites I built using the original Rev news 1 are amongst the best looking, highest converting and most often complimented aesthetically of our sites – so to some of the knuckleheads above who somehow imply that a one year old clean design is dated 14 months later – have very little, I dare say – feel for good design.
That said – I – like – Melvin above – would prefer you keep these tucked comfortably in the comfortable arms of the past. But not because you are a Christian – or because God cares. (because it’s been proven he prefers Joomla and thinks blogging is a waste of time)
But because you did sort of throw that out a big announcement that was temporarily based – and people did make buying decisions around that – and invariably – I don’t think it speaks well to a forward thinking marketing mindset to dive back into the same bag of tricks so soon thereafter.
I’ll still like you though, even if you do..:-)
I think a lot of things need to be clarified. For starters …
1. Would Revolution Two disappear or would your continue to release themes there under the same guidelines you are using now?
2. Would the Revolution One themes be re-released at no charge as “unsupported versions” as Themes are now available on Revolution Two?
3. Where would your new themes be released? Revolution One or Revolution Two?
It sounds to me (as someone mentioned above) that the business model which was developed for Revolution Two has not worked. What you are proposing is a way to go back to the original business model where users could not download unsupported versions of the premium themes.
While I have no problem with you reverting back to your original business model I think it would be better to just announce things are not working financially with Revolution Two and you need to make a change.
As it currently stands, there seems to be a lot of “wavering” on the correct business model to use with these premium themes and as you can see from the comments A LOT of questions. Heck, I’m been using your themes for over a year and reading your blog on a daily basis, and I’m confused.
I would suggest you choose a business model and stick to it. The Revolution brand integrity will take a hit if the wavering continues and no one wants to buy something from you and be uncertain if it’s going to be offered for free 3 months later, if upgrades will be available, what kind of back-end support will be offered, etc.
Thanks for listening.
I would be ecstatic if I were to see the original Revolution Themes make a return. Those themes mean so much to me because they were the first themes that ever got me into Web Design in the first place and they really gave me a wonderful experience in this field as a whole. I seriously cherish my Revolution Pro Media theme, and because of that, and your excellent work Brian, you’ve helped me get somewhere neat in my life.
On another note, I like moderating the Original Themes in the forums. It feels like home.
Either way, I can’t wait to see what happens!
Hi Brian,
I say go for it! I believe I’ve paid all I could for both Rev1 & 2, so I’d love to have most current versions that follow the capabilities of latest WP releases. I have to admit, I’m using woothemes for a few sites and really like the designs, interface and support.
I’m still REALLY interested in the theme you were using for this site a while back with rotating quotes, etc. It was so nice and simple. You’re a great man, doing great things. So, my only advice would be to only do what you can do with that level of greatness and we’ll all love you for it.
Merry Christmas!
-David
Brian, for what it’s worth, I prefer the usual business model of pay for the theme and get lifetime support. Much fewer questions.
Hi Brian,
Lots of respect that you choose to publicly ponder decisions of this kind – i think that is character. I believe you can be as flexible as you like tweaking your business model and i applaud your decision to explore the wilderness.
It would be nice to have R1 back. Why in the first place stop the innovation for an already widely successful set of themes.
However, it would be nice to work something out with your R1 customer base especially those that made purchases since the R2 news surfaced. I hope they understand that having provided access to R2, lifetime support (which i am not even sure is sustainable in the long run) and upgrades it is only fair to have R1 back so you continue with the innovation. I hope they all realise it would be horrible to have you struggle to keep doing what you do best (developing themes) because of having to stick with certain business models!
May be slightly off topic here but let me say returning R1, if you finally so decided, on the same terms as R2 seems unfair to you and your existing customer base. Whereas the GPL thing is a good way of encouraging exploration, learning and enriches the community, i don’t believe free download links are a good idea. GPL does not have to be free! How about the bills to pay and the business costs?. How about tweaking the model slightly to ‘nominal fee’ downloads with upgrades to support. What about ‘nominal fee’ support after initial annual purchases? I think the idea of extending customisation opportunities to your client developers is brilliant by the way.
Well, i hope you somehow bring back R1.
Good luck, and happy holidays.
BSK
Even though I bought the all-inclusive package for your old Revolution themes, I never did end up deploying any of them for regular use. I installed Revolution Magazine as an experiment, but it was all kinds of broken on the site where I tried it (unfortunately, I don’t recall all of the details), a customization project for a friend is on hold and probably being canceled because she might want to use something other than WordPress for her site (and even if she does use WordPress she will probably want to use Revolution Lifestyle instead of a customized version of Revolution Real Estate), and I have been keeping too busy to do nearly as much tinkering as I would like with your themes or most of my own projects while trying to focus on school and work. Thus, in a sense, I have not yet really had a chance to get anything from my Revolution themes purchase and bringing the old themes back as current rather than deprecated themes seems likely to increase the likelihood that they will be updated for new versions of WordPress, the likelihood that there will be relevant and useful community discussion, and the likelihood that I will eventually get some use out of them. So by all means, please do bring them back.
I still think it might make sense for you to migrate the old themes to the new terms and license. However, I am uncertain about whether your intent is to eventually offer the older Revolution themes free of charge or if they would be offered under the GPL, but still only to paying customers. I know you are concerned about offending people who paid for the themes with expectations of constant prices and scarcity, but those expectations were never realistic. Success often leads to less scarcity and lower prices; the more you sell of anything, the more units or copies are out there and the less your margins have to be to maintain a particular overall profit. That’s just basic economics. And let’s be realistic: if you really want your site to look unique, you have someone make an original design, you make an original design yourself, or you consider significant customization; you don’t just buy a pre-made theme knowing perfectly well that countless other people could eventually buy the same exact theme then call it a day. Expectation of scarcity doesn’t seem like much of an argument to me.
That leaves cost. I spent money for something you might give to others for less or for free, but so what? I made two decisions on the day I bought your all-inclusive package: that your themes looked good enough to pay for and that I wanted to support your efforts. What other people pay or do not pay changes nothing about those decisions. If they get a better deal, good for them. I still deemed your themes worth paying what I paid before I paid it.
One thing that previous purchasers may overlook about free-of-charge themes is simple: the more people there are using something, the more people there are who know about that thing. If you are a Revolution licensee and you look to the community for such things as information, advice, or to hire someone to do a customization job, would you rather have a pool of a hundred people who might be able to help you or a thousand or a hundred thousand or five hundred thousand? In this case, more Revolution theme users is better.
If you make the old Revolution themes available again for a mandatory fee (i.e., a license fee, not just a support fee), but under the GPL or some similar license, that would be pretty good, but I do think it would limit community cooperation and involvement in the project itself because the number of paying customers would remain very small compared to the community enabled by free-of-charge themes. I am not sure if you have considered contributions to your themes (e.g., bug-fixes, alternate style sheets, and additional or functionally modified templates), but the themes themselves could benefit from the larger user base. Some people may be more likely to submit a bug report or a bug fix if they know it will be freely available to many people rather than restricted to just a few of someone else’s paying customers.
Whatever you decide will work best for your business model and your customers, I wish you the best of luck. I think your themes look great. Please keep up the good work.
Brian,
I have the greatest respect for the contribution you have made to the “professionalisation” of the Wordpress theme “market”. Your Revolution One themes and forum shook up the whole premium theme market, and showed that traditional values such as customer service, fast response time, friendly and knowledgeable moderators and contributors, let alone quality themes, all added up to a professional product that people don’t mind paying for. I also think you have successfully continued that trend with Revolution Two. But now you have doubts? Perhaps Revolution Two signup is less than Revolution One sales? That’s your business, but permit me to offer the following comments which, I hope, you take as being positive and constructive.
I think the idea to bring back Revolution One themes under the old terms is a step backwards and undermines the stance you said you were taking with the move to R2’s model of free theme/paid support. My thoughts are that you can’t have it both ways. You either respect GPL or you don’t. If you do, then by all means you can sell your themes but you can’t stop anyone re-distributing them for free or for money. As you know, you can’t even insist on a “site licence” nor a footer link. Now, it is quite possible that I have misunderstood your intentions but I think the idea of running two approaches to GPL is just plain wrong. The genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back. Of course, I haven’t mentioned copyright and will come back to that further on…
I tend to agree with some of the other commenters that the “exclusivity” argument was always a bit of a sop and was frankly unrealistic. If someone really wants exclusivity they hire a designer and get a site built from scratch, or they take an existing theme and modify it heavily. Therefore, I see no problem with you introducing WP 2.7 versions of R1 themes under R2 terms. Yes, you will annoy some people, but you also give something to the R2 customer base (and very cheaply on your side).
Having said all that, it’s interesting to see when reading through the 100+ comments on this post, that many users don’t give two figs for “GPL” or “non-GPL”. They liked the idea that they were buying something tangible – a theme, and got unlimited free support. Strangely, psychologically speaking, downloading a free theme and paying for support doesn’t feel the same as buying the theme and getting free support – although the end result is the same.
Clearly there is something going on with human nature here! I guess it is simply that the return on investment in the R1 model (in the purchaser’s eyes) is clear – “I’ve bought a bunch of files and they’re now sitting on my hard drive (mine, all mine!), and I don’t care if I never ask a single question on the forum.” as opposed to the R2 model where “If I never ask a question on the forum, did I waste my money?”…. Perhaps that is why so many posters here are urging you to reintroduce the R1 model?
However, this still leaves us with the problem of GPL as we have two potentially conflicting situations. On the one hand, we have the GPL issue which means you can sell the theme in whatever manner you choose and people can pay you on that basis, but you can’t prevent re-distribution. Clearly, that’s not very attractive to you. On the other hand, there is a customer base who seems more happy to pay for a theme. Of course, technically, you retain copyright in the theme as although you are using Wordpress hooks and tags to create the theme, you have designed the layout, you have selected which Wordpress functionality will be built in, you have written the stylesheet and you have provided the images. Legally speaking, although there is an argument over the extent to which these are derivative works, as this hasn’t (to my knowledge) been tested in court, who knows! Therefore I think it is fair enough to say that everything apart from the PHP files is yours to do with as you freely wish – include restrict distribution of those elements – and outside GPL. In fact this is pretty much the model used by Drupal. What we need is a firmer position from wordpress.org on this issue.
Ok. Fine words maybe, but where does this leave us? And where do we go from here?
Here are my suggestions for the future:
1. Encourage Wordpress to clearly define what is and what is not covered by GPL. Personally, I favour the Drupal approach.
2. Persevere with the R2 business model.
3. Release WP 2.7 versions of R1 themes under R2 terms.
4. Make your’s and Jason’s themes more co-ordinated. Your new wireframe should address this.
5. Be prepared to release more themes more frequently.
6. Sell variation stylesheets for existing themes at nominal amounts (say sub-$20).
7. Introduce e-commerce themes, real music themes (along the lines of TV), develop the photography portfolio style of theme. There are lots of niche areas which are not well catered for by most free themes.
8. Define better the difference between Support and Customisation in your T&Cs re the forum. I am sure that your moderators don’t get that much direct work from the forum because (a) forum answers often crossover into customisation and (b) the person asking the question “can I have an extra column on my homepage” clearly thinks that this is a 30 second job and that he’s already paid for the answer! It is not, and he hasn’t. Encourage your customisers to offer specific customisation packages (maybe at a fixed fee) for specific added functionality?
I don’t have all the answers, but those are my initial thoughts.
Anyway Brian, once again, please take these comments in the friendly spirit in which they are written. Whatever you decide, I am sure I shall continue to watch your progress with interest.
Max.
A few comments to add to the mix:
1) Some people imply that the R1 themes are significantly inferior to R2, and I don’t see it that way. Yes, I think R2 is more refined, but I still think the R1 themes are excellent, and in some cases have advantages (such as the shadow effect on the magazine themes). For some sites I use R1, and I don’t feel that I’m slighting myself by not using an R2 theme. Sure, I’d love for the R1 themes to be updated regularly (WP 2.7, etc.), but so far I’ve not found any technical issue that I couldn’t handle myself. Other people also like the R1 stuff a lot, so there is a big following that would love to see these themes available again and updated regularly.
2) As for your business model, some people will probably complain if you do it one way, and others will complain if you do it the opposite way. So you can’t win. With that in mind, I’d recommend doing whatever you need to do to make this profitable for you, while being as fair as possible to those who have paid for themes or support along the way. Whether you charge for themes or support, you’re offering excellent products and service…and it’s a bargain no matter how you charge for it. Believe me, I’ve been through several Joomla theme clubs, and none of them compare to what Revolution offers in terms of quality and support. So I recommend doing whatever you need to do, knowing that some people will be unhappy and there’s nothing you can do about that.
Best regards,
Mark
Bring revo 1 back please.
Great idea!
The Original is always the original
Joliveira
I purchased a R1 theme but have yet to do any work with it. Now that WP 2.7 is out I was thrown a bit by exactly how nicely this R1 theme would play with 2.7. I see you’re updating the R1 themes to be 2.7 compatible. That said… I have worked with WP for a really brief time… still not clear on most of it.
Way less experience than almost all posters here with WP but, I would like to chime in on the business model. I have no problem paying for a theme and paying a reasonable annual fee for support. I may be in the minority but after years of dealing with my current app, GoLive… I got used to paying for upgrades that were buggy and then not being able to get support for it (or being told it was my Mac’s fault… loved that one).
I think it’s very reasonable to expect the author of a theme to get paid for his time when he makes himself available to answer questions. This is a business after all. I think it’s human nature to be a bit more involved when you’re getting paid for it. I’d liken it to an annual fee for a trade magazine. You want good info and overall good services… you pay for it.
Very reasonable.
That said, I too prefer the R1 looks. I thought they were visually striking and very clear at the same time… not an easy task.
John
I’m a satisfied customer. I hope that one day I can do all of things with both the Rev1 and Rev2 things that I want to, but I sure can’t complain about the support.
When I bought Rev1 developer pack, I didn’t know you were going to take it off the market. Who am I to complain if you put it back on.
I am probably too far down the mass list of comments to get a read … oh well.
Brian knows that I am a supporter of his work … or at least I was at one time. I am not one of those buy a super redonkulously all inclusive take me on an incredulous adventure Rev 1 Package for hundreds of dollars – I just purchased the News Theme. I have never purchased a theme prior to the News theme. Once Rev1 was ditched … I ditched the News theme … and customized a perfectly minimalistic tarski theme. My attitude was that I paid for something … I used it … now it was gone … fine.
However, I still made the purchase as minimalistic as it was. Now, it might be offered for $free.99 ? From a consumers point of view – I feel cheated in a way. It is sorta the same feeling one gets after one buys something and then the item sells for 50% off.
I cannot be too critical here because I have yet to support Rev2 and most likely will not in the foreseeable future. Just think about the HYPE you generated by telling those users that a certain product was going to be discontinued and then bring it back. As much as I loved the Rev1 themes and how much it would benefit your user base … I think it would be a kick in the pants to a select group of your supporters … especially those who might have made purchases based on your advertising. Not sure if this could get you in some form of legal trouble? I am not a lawyer, so this might be perfectly okay.
Ultimately, the choice is with Brian. He will never be able to please everyone, so the decision that he needs to go forward with is the one that he can live with. Whichever direction he decides to go, I am sure it will provide some benefit to the WordPress community.
Brian, you have already done some amazing things for the wordpress community. I wish you the best of luck with such a controversial decision that you might have to make in the upcoming weeks.
Best wishes to you and your family this holiday season.
People are willing to pay for your product, by all means encourage them.
BTW, just started using Code Gray on a blog that really isn’t ready yet, but if you like, you can visit it at, opines.mythusmage.com. I like your code and CSS. I don’t really understand them, but they’re clean and I like that.
I’m also in the habit of moving side bars around. To move the left sidebar to the left of the theme I would simply move the left sidebar call from the bottom of the document just above the right sidebar call to the top of the document just under the div/content tag.
And this should give you a sort of book look. . .
.postarea p {
text-index: 10px;
padding: 0;
margin: 0 5px 0 5px;
}
The left and right margins set at 5px in order to avoid conflicts with content to either side.
Thanks for your work, and for making your themes easy to modify. After dozens of “my work is ton important for the likes of you” themes straight forward code is good.
Yes i would love it if they come back as i don’t have my login to download updates.
I love the themes, R1 and R2.
I was one of those who opposed the business model for R2 vehemently on this blog.
Just a couple of comments:
1. The frequent changes (and discussion of changes) is unsettling. I respectfully suggest you stick to one model and stick to it. At times it’s like voting for one man, he gets elected, and then jumps to another political party afterwards.
2. As an avid user of your themes, I can tell you this much: I will gladly pay for them if they are updated regularly with necessary support to make the updates smooth. I think R1 themes became ignored like a red headed stepchild after the release of R2.
3. I would suggest you simplify your membership packages. With each change, people are confused which “level” of products/support they are entitled to. A table with check marks would be very helpful. Then each person can see what they are (not) getting.
I may sound negative but I support your proposed changes if the updates and support are better. Thank you for reading.
I think it will be a big mistake not to make revolution one available..
as an affiliate marketer point of view.. if you really will bring it back..
that means you are giving us (affiliates) a free opportunity to a bowl of rice to feed our family…. and I can hug you for that!
please please bring it back…
There will always be a place for premium themes as long as the authors are willing to offer support. What is killing the premium theme market is many guys (present company excluded) toss the themes out, Wordpress upgrades their software, the theme breaks and the blogger is out the investment because the theme author took a hike. Anecdotally speaking I know of more than a couple cases as I described. It is for this reason that I use “free themes” not to mention that I am one guy who was burned on a premium theme.
I have followed you for a couple years now and “was” going to invest in “Revolution” but you stopped the offering near as I could tell. Shame really.
I can understand why some very good theme writers have quit though. Some of the customers are idiots and expect the theme writer to be their sole tech support on all things blog. What a headache.
I have been studying “child” themes to take care of my needs. My problem is I know nothing about coding and I have no desire to learn. Folks like yourself are who I will turn to for help. Frankly I am willing to pay a recurring subscription fee for a child theme setup. But that is just me. There will always be a place for premium themes…. you sir just need to make up your mind to set yourself apart from the crowd and go for the brass ring. Your talent is that good.
Brian – I am Ultimately So Confused!! I haven’t the time to finish reading all these comments, but when I went to get the link for a new theme, I was shocked to see it gone. Which led me to your site, then a link and now reading over 100 comments. The explanation was confusing, the comments confusing and to be honest (you did ask for honest), I would like a better explanation….
I believe you are saying that you are going to no longer offer your ‘new business model’ with paying for support and go back to the package plans and those that came on board as a Rev2 member will have to pay the difference for your new membership plan?
Will the support business model be your goal or will the old and new themes be sold individually or as an all inclusive package…??
I’m curious as to why and how this came about? Did the new Rev2 business model not work well? I know the Rev1 themes were still wanted after you closed up shop there and many new themes almost mimicked them in many ways, can you share a bit in more detail as to what really motivated you to change up after just a month??
Regardless of what you do, I know I have the entire All Inclusive Package and that makes me a happy camper, I won all the way around and never have been disappointed!!
Just curious..
May your 2009 be grand and prosperous!!
Candace
In a nutshell: you’d be absolutely crazy not to have them available. In fact, you are leaving money on the table and the fact that you pulled them doesn’t help the notion of continuity that people look for when they decide who to buy from and bank on.
You should bring them back, yesterday. (They were also first class themes, btw.)
Brian, as far as I’m concerned — us having purchased a developer license and just now coming back to see that so much has changed in your approach — my two-cents is that the project we used the theme we purchased made our lives easier and we certainly made our money back (and in my eyes, a value-added investment).
In that sense, it doesn’t make any sense for you not to release your themes as you see fit — and I’m sure we’ll all appreciate the ongoing support and continue to evolve with you.
I say keep everything in the loop.
I’ll sum it up.
I need to buy a new theme.
I dont necessarily have one in rev 2 I like, so I want to look at rev 1 again (I already have 2 rev one themes)
So my options are now to wait only. Cant do what I want wirth rev 2.
Sense is, re-release rev one, then I have to make up my freakin mind. and spend money with you
DK
Another vote to bring back R1.
not sure if the old revolution themes are now part of any purchase after the discussion kicke-off. really regret it, that i didn’t buy the old version earlier, but wasn’t aware of changes. would appreciate access to old themes somehow, even i have to update them myself to the new wp version. cheers.
Yes — absolutely YES!
PLEASE bring them back — The Revolution One themes are still better than alot of what’s out there and though the new themes are nice sometimes what I need is a theme that’s no longer offered!
I never really understood the idea of removing them anyway… Discounting maybe, but completely removing themes that people still want never made sense to me.
Hi Brian – I know I am late to get into this discussion, but I’ll jump in anyway.
I bought the all-inclusive Revolution 1 package just before you went GPL and launched Rev 2. You had made a commitment to cut off sales of Rev 1, and that is why I bought the package. I understood that Rev 1 users would be limited to those who already bought, and no others. Of course, one goal for anybody running a site is that you don’t want a million sites out there looking the same as yours does, so when you said that no more would be sold, I jumped in, just a few days before you took them off sale.
Anyway, I support you and your themes. You are a great developer. I will be somewhat disappointed if you again launch Rev 1, but I can live with it. For all I know, you’ve already done it.
Good luck, Brian.
Just do it!
Thanks Paula, you are one of literally hundred of people feeling this way!
Dear Brian,
Please, please, please bring back the Revolution News and Revolution City templates!!!! So far I have spent much too much money and time on purchasing other themes that frankly are worthless and have no support. You have been the only person that has responded to queries quickly and efficiently, you read emails through completely before responding, and seem to have a cadre of talented and qualified people to help with customization,etc.–also a seeming rareity.
I am desperately in search of either the Revolution News or Revolution City template and can’t find where to buy them.
Dan, the current themes are technically available under the GPL license, so all themes would over the course of time be on one site, with the same license.
Well for obvious reasons I agree with you Craig – the bottom line is that it’s a win-win, with the best possible themes and support all in one place.
Thanks EC – and I’ve also heard the same thing from countless others, which is why it makes sense to open up a place where all themes can be available.
Thanks Grant, hopefully others will feel the same way and agree with you!
Andy – thanks for the feedback, and certainly food for thought. Not sure what you mean here, can you explain “As it is, just because a current theme is under GPL, doesn’t necessarily mean you should make it easy for people to download the themes for free, no matter what the support level.” And yes I agree, the R2 thing was an experiment on the fly, and we’re still in the process of figure out how to refine that.
Thanks Joe – appreciate the kind words and ongoing support. I’ll keep developing as long as people continue using the themes!
Thanks Carl – appreciate that as well. Guess we’ll see what the general consensus is.
There is no need under the GPL to offer a download link to an unsupported version. You might want to do that for viral marketing purposes in some way, but in that case at the very least you would want to collect an email address before a download.
I could be wrong, but I believe Brian is thinking about releasing the original Revolution themes under the new GPL licensing which means they would be available alongside the Revolution Two themes on the same site as part of the same GPL licensing and support packages.
No, if this goes down, ultimately Rev One themes will end up on a completely new site, with the addition of other new themes I have in the works.
Thanks David – that is the ultimate intent, I hope!
It means that when Rev 2 launched, all those who purchased Rev 1 All Inclusive packages were automatically granted the Pro Plus package of Rev 2 at no charge.
As Andy mentioned, that would have happened anyway, since I promised that to Rev 1 users, but in the end, it simply means more themes, higher quality and all WP 2.7 ready.
The ultimate intent is to ensure support – that’s always been one of the biggest things for me, and hopefully the forums reflect that. The bottom line is that this should provide better support all around, updated themes fro Rev 1 that will hopefully be less buggy than before and that in the end, a better experience for everyone.
Thanks, I appreciate that – Just trying to make the best decision for all people involved, and users will come first when I decide what’s going on!
Bruce, thanks as always for your continued support – what it means is that anyone who has purchased a Rev 1 All Inclusive membership will automatically be included on the All Theme package that takes place on the new site, at no additional cost. Those who purchased a Pro or Pro Plus package on the Rev 2 site, will have their purchase applied towards the All Theme package. (edited comment.)
Rick, see my response below to Bruce – you will be included!
Thanks Michael – I’m still trying to get in touch so we can work our your page templates!
Thanks Michael – I appreciate that, and hope to keep everyone happy here!
Remkus, thanks for your insight, and I hope to make a decision soon – in the end, a site that has all of my themes available for purchase with support is the goal – to provide one place for people to get everything.
The intent is to hire out some more people to ensure that what I do is top notch, which is why current theme updating and support will come first.
Thanks, Brian. This is an incredibly good package.
Sorry for venting a bit of my frustration with what’s going on in terms of interpreting the application of GPL to themes, though. I do wish Matt would clarify soon.
Take care and best wishes for a Merry Christmas and happy new year!
Brad, ultimately the goal is to put all themes I’ve made on the new site, for purchase under the GPL license – once that transition takes place, I will certainly consider the Child Theme concept, and possibly even open up a marketplace on the site for people to “sell” their versions.
No problem Bruce, and if you want things cleared up about the GPL, check this out.
Thanks for the link, Brian.
Thanks Shane – appreciate the comment, and glad to know you have 3 site rebuilds coming up – hopefully this project is live when you’re ready to do that, and you can take advantage of the themes being available again!
Thanks Donnacha, I appreciate your input as well – and am thankful there are understanding people like you who see this all in the big picture!
Thanks Jack – appreciate your feedback and insight as well. The hope if the Rev 1 themes were brought back would be to also include new features and coding techniques that we’ve picked up along the way, and even more so, possibly offer the ability for stylesheets to be made on the Rev 1 themes to make various options for users.
D/C – oh gosh no, I didn’t take offense to it. Yes, I understand that value of personal interaction, but I will say that a lot of theme users have appreciated receiving that not just from me, but from some of the people who’ve been on the forums – people like Craiger, Paul, Debra, Rebecca, and a number of others who have dedicated themselves to providing the quickest, most accurate support. My intent is to develop them even more, and ensure that if I make this decision, that customer satisfaction (both with products and support) are top notch.
Thanks Paul for your comments, I’m up for constructive criticism. I don’t think that coding quality has ever been questioned about my themes, and I really prefer to keep the code simple and easy for people to read. I also don’t think that a theme options page with 100 theme options also constitutes a better theme – that being said, a lot of people who use themes want things simple, and that’s why I try my best to offer flexibility as well as keeping things manageable for a new WordPress user to work with.
Thanks John – appreciate the comment. I tend to agree, and think that ultimately this is the way to go moving forward.
Moving forward, I’m trying to keep the updates simple and provide instructions on how to update the themes, as I know that making people start over isn’t the best way to do it!
Andy, exactly … GPL is about distribution not price. Very important point. No need to offer free download link in GPL themes, but obviously Brian’s reaped some great dividends by doing so with Rev2.
Thanks man, you know I appreciate that from you. And considering we basically started our paths of WordPress together, it means even more that we can continue to encourage each other along the way. Is it January 29th yet?
DP, thanks for the comments, and glad to know I have your support as well. It just seems like there are a lot of people who are still interested in the Rev One themes, and good to know that’s the case.
Thanks Brett – appreciate that, and glad to know that support and quality mean something to a user. Yes, the hope is to ultimately make them even better over time!
Gosh, Michael – not sure what to say other than a huge thanks. I’m glad that you feel as though I’m a straight shooter, and quite honestly I try my best to operate my business that way. It’s great to hear that you have intentions of still using the themes, even if it’s amidst other ones as well. Thanks for the continued support!
@Brian Gardner
By the way I have long since left the Pearl in my office junk box and use the iPhone. This prompted me to use the iPhone plugin for Wordpress written by Duane Storey and his associates http://www.bravenewcode.com/wptouch/ it’s a good way to write a theme and then not worry about what it will look like on an iPhone.
Cheers,
Shane
I’m sure you can outsource a lot of the mundane work that doesn’t require your personal touch and still give great customer service.
Good to know, I’ll have to check that out!
Thanks Joe, I know you have a fondness for the original themes, so I’m sure you’re onboard if I decide to bring them back, eh?
Thanks Melissa, appreciate that and hope to be able to provide a lot of additional themes as well!
It means that ultimately your purchase would be applied to to anything that was offered back with the One themes – and that you would have a greater selection of themes altogether to work with. Streamline is still in the works, just trying to get past some design cramp issues I’m having with the homepage layout!
Thanks Melvin, I really do appreciate your comment, and understand your point of view. Guess we’ll have to see where this all ends up, but either way, hopefully quality themes and quality support continue in one way or the other!
And what of those who bought the themes expecting a growing community of Revolution theme users to continue growing rather than seeing those themes deprecated and their Revolution theme community subjugated and continued as some old and lesser remnant within the new Revolution theme community? It seems to me that by reviving the old Revolution themes, Brian would be demonstrating renewed dedication to his paying customers while maximizing the sense of community and the support benefits for the whole Revolution theme community, thus also demonstrating fine business integrity indeed.
To have integrity does not mean that one can never exchange one decision for another. We all change our minds. If you are a Christian and you believe the account of Noah in the Book of Genesis and the story of Jonah’s journey to Nineveh, you believe that even God changes his mind. I am not well versed in biblical matters, but from what readings I recall and from the time I spent in church as a child, I recall neither scripture nor common principal that would ascribe fault to Brian for what seems to me a good and potentially widely beneficial deed.
Absolutely, friend. And thanks for giving me a good chuckle – didn’t realize it was that obvious.:)
Brian,
I thought I understood the change you were proposing, until I read your comment to John: “ultimately this is the way to go moving forward”….i.e,. paying for themes, receiving support for free.
So, here are my questions:
–> I bought a Rev1 All Inclusive Package — and I think I understand that if you brought Rev1 back, I would have access now to all the Rev2 themes, as well. Is this correct?
` If so, will I be eligible to receive support for the Rev2 themes at no additional charge?
` If so, how long will this Rev2 theme support be available without cost?
–> I also assumed that at some point I would have to start paying for support for all of your Rev 1 & Rv2 themes. Is this correct?
` If so, when will my first support payment be due?
` If not, what (if any) other payments will be due for those of us who purchased the Rev1 All Inclusive Package?
–> How soon do you anticipating making the Rev1 themes compatible with Wordpress 2.7?
Thanks,
Metta
Hi Brian,
Very confused now.
I thought that was the previous model.
“Pay for theme, get the support for free.”
You changed the approach with the whole GPL thing – “get the theme for free, pay for the support”.
Reintroducing R1? No “protecting the previous investment of your customers (I quote you badly here…)” anymore?
Does it mean the GPL thing is not working so well?
That is what I am starting to think…
For example, less visibility on the good support, forums are not accessible to everyone to see how the support is good, etc…
Buying the theme was definitely better for me. I was feeling good because the product was at the time way better than a free theme AND I got free very good support (if I needed to, but at least I was able to browse through it and see that was not just some dust).
Now, would have done the same thing with the new business model? I honestly don’t think so… I would get the theme for free, would not specifically need the support, and anyway the fact the forums are private would not help to judge the good quality of the support…
Seeing freely the content of the support forums was definitely a big help in the decision to buy (and to send the money to YOU rather than to another theme provider).
So when you comment on “Pay for theme, get the support for free”, why do you mean by “I tend to agree, and think that ultimately this is the way to go moving forward.”?
Huh?, “backward” maybe (?) to the good situation for all it was 3 months ago?
Still loves what you are doing, but difficult to see the bigger scheme. Can you explain?
Thanks Lawrence, I certainly appreciate that!
I’m confused, why would you want to do that?
Thanks for the update! Two very exciting pieces of news!
I’m confused too.
What I’ve been able to gather from reading the comments and adding my own conjecture is that:
Brian will be offering R1 themes under GPL for a fee on a new site. The fee will most likely include support and updates. If it’ll be part of a subscription site or what, who knows.
Nothing in the GPL says that the download link has to be available to everyone. You can charge for it, no problem — the big problem is that absolutely nothing stops someone else from taking said GPL theme and either redistributing it for free, or making a few changes and selling it at a different (perhaps lower) price elsewhere. That’s not for me to worry about, it’s Brian’s business.
Thus, it still looks like the big incentive for purchase would be support — like it is for R2 — you’re just limiting the “official” distribution chain to those who pay. Kind of like how you have to pay for a license for RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), but a free, community version, CentOS, based on the RHEL code, is released within a few weeks of the RHEL updates. So you pay for support, and an additional incentive is getting the product/updates faster.
That might work.
Again, that’s all just total conjecture on my part. I could be totally wrong. But that seems to be where this is all headed.